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"KirkyV" (KirkyV) 08/17/2014 at 12:38 • Filed to: Citroen, Tesla, 2CV

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I saw both of these on my way home from work last week. I can think of few more stark reminders of just how diverse cars can be. From perhaps the ultimate in basic, simple motorised transport, to one of the most complex and sophisticated cars ever made. Shame the Tesla's apparently taken a knock.

(I'd have the 2CV, by the way—presuming I couldn't, for whatever reason, sell the Tesla and have enough money to buy several.)

The Transporter > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 12:42

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Electric cars are actually very simple, mechanically, but the Model S and the 2CV are still at very opposite ends of the spectrum.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 12:44

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As much as I like unusual older cars I cannot stand the 2CV. A family friend had one a long while ago and it was pretty unpleasant. The body flexed so badly it popped the door open in a corner. I'd rather have an old split windscreen Morris Minor if I wanted a classic to potter around in. That said I do appreciate the unusual but pretty clever engineering in the 2CV, I just wouldn't want to drive one.

KirkyV > The Transporter 08/17/2014 at 12:47

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Yeah, I might be better off trimming down 'complex and sophisticated' to just 'sophisticated'. Still, the giant touchscreen, climate control, all the computers/software - they gave it a firmware update that added a 'crawl' function, after all - and so on, win it some complexity - if not mechanical complexity - points.

At least, as compared to a car with a heating system that is essentially a vent leading from the engine compartment to the cabin.

The Transporter > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 12:49

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It's very hard to keep constantly evolving code from looking like a complete and total mess.

KirkyV > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/17/2014 at 12:51

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That very crappiness is what makes me want one. I just love how basic it all is, and the way it gives the impression that a stiff breeze could put a fairly substantial dent in a body panel.

(I will admit that my affection for the 2CV is less than entirely rational.)

dogisbadob > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 12:51

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nice Focus hatchback

KirkyV > dogisbadob 08/17/2014 at 12:56

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There is no more common car in all the (Eng)land than a Focus hatchback. The saloon/sedan is incredibly rare - approaching full-on unicorn status - and was only sold for one generation.

The Mark 1 Focus is still seen as a great car here - ours didn't have the reliability problems that seemingly haunt the North American models - and I've considered getting one a few times, but the sheer commonness of it gives me pause—which is, I'll admit, a daft reason not to buy a car.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 12:58

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I understand this irrational love for a crappy car. My room mate is currently obsessed with the old volvo 740 estate, the more beaten up the better. He likes how tough and durable they look. We passed a rusty one on the motorway today and he seemed pretty interested in it.

dogisbadob > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 13:22

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Yeah over here it's mostly sedans, and some wagons which were mostly government/fleet-issue, and a fair amount of 2-door hatchbacks especially since they were the price leader. However, the 4-door hatches are much less common. It's funny that there are more wagons than 4d hatchbacks!

They fixed most of the reliability problems in 2002, when we first got the 4-door hatch (the other body styles made their US debut in 1999, as 2000 models). And you gotta remember, we have higher standards for reliability over here. Supposedly Europe also likes VW where they're just not good enough when we have Honda and Toyota.

KirkyV > dogisbadob 08/17/2014 at 13:32

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Ah, I didn't know that. I'd assumed the 3-door hatch was less common still than the five door. Here, it goes five door, then three-door, then estate, then convertible.

We have Honda and Toyota, too. We just don't buy many of their cars; they're seen as reliable, but generally uncompetitive. VW's drastically different reputation for reliability between continents - while driven in part, I'm sure, by some degree of snobbishness - could be explained by our VWs being built in completely different factories from yours. I remember reading a report that said that the primary reason why the original Focus had such a terrible reliability record in the US, in spite of being almost - though not quite - identical to the European version, design-wise, was that they were built rather differently over there.

(Reliable or no, I still wouldn't have a VW. They're too dull.)

dogisbadob > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 13:44

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Well besides the late introduction of the 4-door hatch, the 2-door was also the cheapest model so the price leader would naturally get some more sales. They're still less common than the sedan, though. Here it goes sedan, 2-door, wagon, 4-door hatch. I wasn't aware of them building the Foci differently over here, although I wouldn't be surprised by it, either.

Cé hé sin > dogisbadob 08/17/2014 at 16:52

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VW are market leaders in several countries. Toyota do well - they were market leaders here in Ireland for decades and at one time completely dominated the van market with the Hiace until that died a long, slow death, Honda don't do at all, Subaru are basically dead. Interestingly Americans seem to love their Hondas and Subarus.

Cé hé sin > dogisbadob 08/17/2014 at 16:56

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That's a rather odd distribution from a European point of view but I do recall from being in America that four door models do seem to be quite a thing and that two door versions of even large cars sell. Here some makers are dropping three door hatchbacks due to lack of demand, the latest Renault Clio being an example. Two doors (as opposed to three doors) are almost non existent here except for the BWW 4 series and Audi A5 (yes and Porsches and so on!).

Cé hé sin > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 16:58

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Belgian plates? Long way to come in an electric car and not something you could have done before Tesla arrived.

KirkyV > Cé hé sin 08/17/2014 at 17:04

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Indeed, though it has to be pointed out that this was in Folkestone—known to most of Europe as 'the other end of the Eurotunnel'. It actually takes longer to drive to Wales from here than it does to Belgium. Still, without doubt an impressive achievement.

Cé hé sin > KirkyV 08/17/2014 at 17:08

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Indeed. Must have one hell of an extension lead.